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Aprilia Rs 125 Gearbox Oil Problem Losing Oil

#1 User is offline   Mateusz94 

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Posted 04 December 2011 - 05:53 PM

Hello Everyone, its my first time creating a topic so be gentle pls :) Anyway getting to the point, I need your help/advice as I have an Aprilia Rs125 2006 New Shape, had the bike for 3 weeks now and already spotted a problem with the clutch as I found it hard to go uphill from stand still and it is making weird noises. Also after about 10 mins of riding the bike sort of stinks like some plastic has been melting and there was also a rattling sound when in neutral :/ At this point I decided to change the gearbox oil and see what will happen. Then I found something very strange as there was no oil in the gearbox at all!!! I was not sure why it was empty, but I decided to fill it in with new oil and then a real trouble came up when I started the bike up as it started to smoke a lot and you could not see anything behind the bike apart from the very thick white/grey...ish smoke. I checked the level of the gearbox oil and it seemed like it was taking the gearbox oil as there was much less oil than before. I have also checked whether there was not leaks anywhere but everything is fine. My question is whether anyone knows what is happening to the bike? I'll try and put a video up tomorrow to show what is exactly happening.

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#2 User is offline   G3o 

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Posted 04 December 2011 - 06:02 PM

Welcome to the forum fella
One of your crank seals has failed. You'll need to split the crank case and replace the offending seal ;] there is a guide to stripping the engine in the "Useful RS info" thread at the top of the RS section.

This post has been edited by G3o: 04 December 2011 - 06:02 PM


#3 User is offline   pego30 

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Posted 04 December 2011 - 06:03 PM

View PostMateusz94, on 04 December 2011 - 05:53 PM, said:

Hello Everyone, its my first time creating a topic so be gentle pls :) Anyway getting to the point, I need your help/advice as I have an Aprilia Rs125 2006 New Shape, had the bike for 3 weeks now and already spotted a problem with the clutch as I found it hard to go uphill from stand still and it is making weird noises. Also after about 10 mins of riding the bike sort of stinks like some plastic has been melting and there was also a rattling sound when in neutral :/ At this point I decided to change the gearbox oil and see what will happen. Then I found something very strange as there was no oil in the gearbox at all!!! I was not sure why it was empty, but I decided to fill it in with new oil and then a real trouble came up when I started the bike up as it started to smoke a lot and you could not see anything behind the bike apart from the very thick white/grey...ish smoke. I checked the level of the gearbox oil and it seemed like it was taking the gearbox oil as there was much less oil than before. I have also checked whether there was not leaks anywhere but everything is fine. My question is whether anyone knows what is happening to the bike? I'll try and put a video up tomorrow to show what is exactly happening.


crank seals gone on the left hand side and is burning oil threw the cylinder

the noise is becaus its been ran out of oil it needs a full bottom end rebuild

#4 User is offline   Mateusz94 

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Posted 04 December 2011 - 06:44 PM

Thanks very much for fast replies, so even if I will replace the crank seals and the clutch and put everything back the noise would still be there? What do I have to do to make a full bottom end rebuild. Sorry kinda new to repairing things in the engine :)

#5 User is offline   pego30 

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Posted 04 December 2011 - 07:03 PM

View PostMateusz94, on 04 December 2011 - 06:44 PM, said:

Thanks very much for fast replies, so even if I will replace the crank seals and the clutch and put everything back the noise would still be there? What do I have to do to make a full bottom end rebuild. Sorry kinda new to repairing things in the engine :)



the only way youll tell what needs doing is to strip the engine down and inspect it for damage

im guessing the gear box is kapput if its been ran with no oil

#6 User is offline   JimmBob 

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Posted 04 December 2011 - 07:04 PM

you'll find that the plastic gears in clutch cover are obliterated. They cost about £40 iirc. You'll probably need to change the oil and water pump gears in there too. Dead easy job to just do that. Obviously the crank seal needs doing aswell, that's a big job that will require engine removal. The rest of your bottom end may have survived although your gearbox may be buggered

#7 User is offline   ivan-mito 

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Posted 04 December 2011 - 07:24 PM

i had this problem before and like every one says its the seal but i did not rebuild the engine all i did was get a screw and screw it in the seal pop it out and taped a new one in with a long socket and worked a treat :thumbsup: what ever you do dont screw in the metal casing !! haha good luck

oh yea when you screw it in get a hammer and just pull it out you may find the screw pops out some times so just keep trying and after a while the seal comes with it :)

This post has been edited by ivan-mito: 04 December 2011 - 07:26 PM


#8 User is offline   Mateusz94 

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Posted 04 December 2011 - 08:10 PM

Ok thanks for all help, I'll probably start to work on it tomorrow. Looks like there is gonna be a lot of work waiting for me :) but at least its the winter season so will have time to repair it hopefully :) Just last question for people that have done this thing, how long does it take to get to the crankshaft seal? Is it possible to do it within a day? or am I being too optimistic? :) Again Thanks for all the info :D

#9 User is offline   pego30 

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Posted 04 December 2011 - 08:32 PM

View PostMateusz94, on 04 December 2011 - 08:10 PM, said:

Ok thanks for all help, I'll probably start to work on it tomorrow. Looks like there is gonna be a lot of work waiting for me :) but at least its the winter season so will have time to repair it hopefully :) Just last question for people that have done this thing, how long does it take to get to the crankshaft seal? Is it possible to do it within a day? or am I being too optimistic? :) Again Thanks for all the info :D



seal can be replaced without the engine split and while its in the frame
clutch cover off

remove gear selector fork

remove clutch

remove balance gears ( if theres anything left of yours lol )

pull old seal out

replace old seal

fit balance gears and time up correctly

refit clutch

refit gear selctor fork

refit clutch cover with new gasket

job done







but
the noise your hearing suggests there something amiss in the gear box i.e broken bearing or pinion on the shafts

running with no oil in the box results in heat and no lube to bearings

which ends up doing this

http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae11/pego31/25899_1303823367897_1599875041_30715192_4071459_n-1-2.jpg

http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae11/pego31/25899_1303823407898_1599875041_30715193_5918044_n-1-2.jpg

http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae11/pego31/25899_1303823287895_1599875041_30715191_2030350_n-1-2.jpg

#10 User is offline   Mateusz94 

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Posted 04 December 2011 - 08:44 PM

Those pictures look serious and I hope mine does not look like this, otherwise the repair will cost much more :/ but if I would be looking at the worst case scenario and this would actually happen to me, then is it worth repairing it? or just buy a new engine?

#11 User is offline   pego30 

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Posted 04 December 2011 - 08:48 PM

View PostMateusz94, on 04 December 2011 - 08:44 PM, said:

Those pictures look serious and I hope mine does not look like this, otherwise the repair will cost much more :/ but if I would be looking at the worst case scenario and this would actually happen to me, then is it worth repairing it? or just buy a new engine?



if you know what your doing or feel confident then its worth doing yourself
if you dont

then 2 options

buy a second hand engine with no idea when its been rebuilt with no history etc only the owners word to go off *could go boom a week after fitting )



or get it rebuilt yourself by a reputable company like these


http://www.pjme.co.u...Rebuilding.html

#12 User is offline   Mateusz94 

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Posted 04 December 2011 - 09:05 PM

The only thing I am worried about is the timing or "specification" bit mentioned on the website. But I will give it a go and see if it will work out :) Does anyone know what could cause the crankshaft seal to break?

#13 User is offline   G3o 

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Posted 04 December 2011 - 09:12 PM

View Postpego30, on 04 December 2011 - 08:32 PM, said:

seal can be replaced without the engine split and while its in the frame
clutch cover off

remove gear selector fork

remove clutch

remove balance gears ( if theres anything left of yours lol )

pull old seal out

replace old seal

fit balance gears and time up correctly

refit clutch

refit gear selctor fork

refit clutch cover with new gasket

job done


Didn't realize you could change it while in the engine, hadn't really thought about it. Always nice to know :thumbsup:

#14 User is offline   Jacobbb 

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Posted 04 December 2011 - 09:14 PM

They're consumables. Running with low oil probably started it as it would of caused more friction.

#15 User is offline   Mateusz94 

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Posted 04 December 2011 - 09:31 PM

I didnt even know that, I thought it would be from the thrashing when cold, at least thats what the previous owner I assume did (b*st*rd!!) I know the bike has had better days from the service history provided to it and also because of that I thought that the bike had been maintained at least appropriately :/

#16 User is offline   LoudnLow 

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 04:58 PM

View Postpego30, on 04 December 2011 - 08:32 PM, said:

seal can be replaced without the engine split and while its in the frame
clutch cover off

remove gear selector fork

remove clutch

remove balance gears ( if theres anything left of yours lol )

pull old seal out

replace old seal

fit balance gears and time up correctly

refit clutch

refit gear selctor fork

refit clutch cover with new gasket

job done







but
the noise your hearing suggests there something amiss in the gear box i.e broken bearing or pinion on the shafts

running with no oil in the box results in heat and no lube to bearings

which ends up doing this

http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae11/pego31/25899_1303823367897_1599875041_30715192_4071459_n-1-2.jpg

http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae11/pego31/25899_1303823407898_1599875041_30715193_5918044_n-1-2.jpg

http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae11/pego31/25899_1303823287895_1599875041_30715191_2030350_n-1-2.jpg


lol at those pictures.

#17 User is offline   Mateusz94 

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 05:23 PM

Ok, I have taken out the crankshaft oil seal and I am going to put new one on monday, but I have found that there is only this one plastic sprocket with a mark on to be positioned correctly according to the dot on the metal "thing" that holds it. Am I right or is there any other marks that have to be positioned correctly?

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#18 User is offline   pego30 

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 05:31 PM

View PostMateusz94, on 10 December 2011 - 05:23 PM, said:

Ok, I have taken out the crankshaft oil seal and I am going to put new one on monday, but I have found that there is only this one plastic sprocket with a mark on to be positioned correctly according to the dot on the metal "thing" that holds it. Am I right or is there any other marks that have to be positioned correctly?


oh dear

you need to allighn all marks as said in the rotax manual


http://www.125ccspor...dpost&p=1268914

#19 User is offline   Mateusz94 

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 05:58 PM

Thanks for the link will definitely use it to put it back together, this time properly :) Also one of the yellow plastic sprockets (left one) is worn out pretty heavily because of the crankshaft seal being not seated correctly, is there any way of buying just this sprocket or do I have to buy the whole set?

#20 User is offline   pego30 

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 06:03 PM

View PostMateusz94, on 10 December 2011 - 05:58 PM, said:

Thanks for the link will definitely use it to put it back together, this time properly :) Also one of the yellow plastic sprockets (left one) is worn out pretty heavily because of the crankshaft seal being not seated correctly, is there any way of buying just this sprocket or do I have to buy the whole set?


http://www.pjme.co.u...ottom_End_.html



although id renew both tbh as they only last so many miles before they should be replaced on the service schedule

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